Comments on: Does Swing Need Saving? http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/does-swing-need-saving (permanently in beta) Mon, 09 Jan 2012 20:21:24 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Randolf Richardson http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/does-swing-need-saving/comment-page-1#comment-5123 Randolf Richardson Sun, 08 Aug 2010 07:06:45 +0000 http://www.danielspiewak.com/java/does-swing-need-saving#comment-5123 Regarding the appearance, Sun introduced a new one recently called "Nimbus" which is a major improvement over "Metal" and I've gotten good feedback from some novice users about it -- it looks nice, modern, is easy to use, and even has a minor quirk (as all good things usually do) in that the scroll bars look partly rounded (this seems odd at first, but users seem to get used to it really quickly and take quite a liking to it). Regarding the appearance, Sun introduced a new one recently called “Nimbus” which is a major improvement over “Metal” and I’ve gotten good feedback from some novice users about it — it looks nice, modern, is easy to use, and even has a minor quirk (as all good things usually do) in that the scroll bars look partly rounded (this seems odd at first, but users seem to get used to it really quickly and take quite a liking to it).

]]> By: Daniel Spiewak http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/does-swing-need-saving/comment-page-1#comment-3656 Daniel Spiewak Mon, 26 May 2008 01:44:13 +0000 http://www.danielspiewak.com/java/does-swing-need-saving#comment-3656 By contrast, Visual Studio produces UIs which don't reposition (on frame resize), aren't cross-platform friendly, and are *incapable* of resolution independence. You lose a lot when you go with absolute positioning for everything. It works for some apps, but I'm glad that Swing (and SWT) took the high road and used layout managers. If flash/bang is what you're looking for though, you should try Matisse. For most simple to moderately-complex UIs, Matisse is capable of producing the Java code with full layout management wrapped by a tool which is (I believe) even easier than WinForms designer. By contrast, Visual Studio produces UIs which don’t reposition (on frame resize), aren’t cross-platform friendly, and are *incapable* of resolution independence. You lose a lot when you go with absolute positioning for everything. It works for some apps, but I’m glad that Swing (and SWT) took the high road and used layout managers.

If flash/bang is what you’re looking for though, you should try Matisse. For most simple to moderately-complex UIs, Matisse is capable of producing the Java code with full layout management wrapped by a tool which is (I believe) even easier than WinForms designer.

]]> By: Java Sucks http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/does-swing-need-saving/comment-page-1#comment-3654 Java Sucks Sun, 25 May 2008 20:27:36 +0000 http://www.danielspiewak.com/java/does-swing-need-saving#comment-3654 Having used Visual Studio for years... I'm totally baffled by Java's layout managers. I have never come across a limitation in building a GUI in Visual Studio, and the GUI creation process has always been a non-issue, a quick 30 seconds before you really dig down into writing the application's code. Java's layout managers on the other hand - are all ridiculously laborious and limited. Having used Visual Studio for years… I’m totally baffled by Java’s layout managers.

I have never come across a limitation in building a GUI in Visual Studio, and the GUI creation process has always been a non-issue, a quick 30 seconds before you really dig down into writing the application’s code.

Java’s layout managers on the other hand – are all ridiculously laborious and limited.

]]> By: İskender Yigitel http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/does-swing-need-saving/comment-page-1#comment-1895 İskender Yigitel Thu, 17 May 2007 15:13:48 +0000 http://www.danielspiewak.com/java/does-swing-need-saving#comment-1895 Very nice article, and I agree most of the comments. Your approach to the subject is nice and rational Very nice article, and I agree most of the comments. Your approach to the subject is nice and rational

]]> By: stevpan http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/does-swing-need-saving/comment-page-1#comment-1863 stevpan Fri, 09 Mar 2007 09:33:46 +0000 http://www.danielspiewak.com/java/does-swing-need-saving#comment-1863 could sun guys turn out somewhat goodlooking interface? could sun guys turn out somewhat goodlooking interface?

]]> By: stevpan http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/does-swing-need-saving/comment-page-1#comment-1862 stevpan Fri, 09 Mar 2007 09:32:29 +0000 http://www.danielspiewak.com/java/does-swing-need-saving#comment-1862 swing font is really really ugly, i think it hurting my eyes. can't imagine others will use my product is i choose swing. swing font is really really ugly, i think it hurting my eyes.
can’t imagine others will use my product is i choose swing.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/does-swing-need-saving/comment-page-1#comment-1861 Stephen Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:20:30 +0000 http://www.danielspiewak.com/java/does-swing-need-saving#comment-1861 The most singular problem w/ the EDT issue is that developers do not understand multi threading. It's a symptom of another debate...RAD tools + good higher level apis = developers don't have to understand the internals. In WinForms, you have to do data processing outside the GUI thread as well, and I'm sure this is the case for Objective C. I believe someone wrote an article that made dzone comparing the three(I'm a bit too busy to search at the moment) My main point is EDT problems are not exclusive to Swing; they are just known as something else. The most singular problem w/ the EDT issue is that developers do not understand multi threading. It’s a symptom of another debate…RAD tools + good higher level apis = developers don’t have to understand the internals.

In WinForms, you have to do data processing outside the GUI thread as well, and I’m sure this is the case for Objective C.

I believe someone wrote an article that made dzone comparing the three(I’m a bit too busy to search at the moment)

My main point is EDT problems are not exclusive to Swing; they are just known as something else.

]]> By: Daniel Spiewak http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/does-swing-need-saving/comment-page-1#comment-1860 Daniel Spiewak Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:52:18 +0000 http://www.danielspiewak.com/java/does-swing-need-saving#comment-1860 @Curt Yeah, I kind of ignored the EDT. I probably should have brought it up since (without my helper method) it's much uglier to force EDT operations in JRuby than it is in Java. Oh well. :-) @Curt

Yeah, I kind of ignored the EDT. I probably should have brought it up since (without my helper method) it’s much uglier to force EDT operations in JRuby than it is in Java. Oh well. :-)

]]> By: aldo http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/does-swing-need-saving/comment-page-1#comment-1859 aldo Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:49:56 +0000 http://www.danielspiewak.com/java/does-swing-need-saving#comment-1859 Hi every body, in university i developed some awt demos, the main problem was lack of memory to use a IDE to building the gui so to many try/error for positioning well the controls. latter in laboral life i started with web development with jsp, struts, ejb2, ejb2 sucks, jsp a little too, what pain i suffer, no oo model (request/response) paradigm, impossible to apply oo principes, code reusability, or at least structured programing, differente support of browser of standars, what painful it is. Latter in another job i work with swing what a relief, (Jdeveloper) two applications in one year using Java Web Start, Aqua look and feel, the main disavantage was that was client/server, uses 50 Mb of memory (after optimizing from 120). too much memory for some winxp cliente wit 128MB RAM. luckly all important clienta had 256MB RAM. Latter i developed again with JSP until now, however i always remeber those days, a pure language, no mix. Compared to my previus experience it was easy than jsp, belive me, and i did't know about patterns and anything like that. That look easy to develop, but add some custom behavior and it will look like a monster, also how many web frameworks there are to try to resolve problem of difficult web programing?, in the other side swing and SWT. Now for the new rich clients, new options appear AJAX, Flash, i will prefer a come back of swing, (client/server) problem is easily to solve with webservice (html/soap) so swing clients doesn't need to load a big jar all the process could be done in the server, and swing only needs to display data with this memory usage and initial download size could be reduced (25MB memory, 1mb jar) , a easy/clean install of java should be needed also (for me java is easy to install than flash, but many peple say that is difficult), Shared JVM should help also, and thats it, i hope Java 7 could bring us that, otherwise i wich shift to flash. Hi every body, in university i developed some awt demos, the main problem
was lack of memory to use a IDE to building the gui so to many try/error
for positioning well the controls. latter in laboral life i started with
web development with jsp, struts, ejb2, ejb2 sucks, jsp a little too,
what pain i suffer, no oo model (request/response) paradigm, impossible
to apply oo principes, code reusability, or at least structured programing,
differente support of browser of standars, what painful it is. Latter in
another job i work with swing what a relief, (Jdeveloper) two applications in one year using Java Web Start, Aqua look and feel, the main disavantage was
that was client/server, uses 50 Mb of memory (after optimizing from 120).
too much memory for some winxp cliente wit 128MB RAM. luckly all important
clienta had 256MB RAM. Latter i developed again with JSP until now, however
i always remeber those days, a pure language, no mix. Compared to my
previus experience it was easy than jsp, belive me, and i did’t know
about patterns and anything like that.

That look easy to develop, but add some custom behavior and it
will look like a monster, also how many web frameworks there are
to try to resolve problem of difficult web programing?, in
the other side swing and SWT.

Now for the
new rich clients, new options appear AJAX, Flash, i will prefer
a come back of swing, (client/server) problem is easily to solve
with webservice (html/soap) so swing clients doesn’t need to load a big
jar all the process could be done in the server, and swing only needs
to display data with this memory usage and initial download size could
be reduced (25MB memory, 1mb jar) , a easy/clean install of java should be needed also
(for me java is easy to install than flash, but many peple say that is
difficult), Shared JVM should help also, and thats it, i hope
Java 7 could bring us that, otherwise i wich shift to flash.

]]> By: Curt Cox http://www.codecommit.com/blog/java/does-swing-need-saving/comment-page-1#comment-1858 Curt Cox Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:25:41 +0000 http://www.danielspiewak.com/java/does-swing-need-saving#comment-1858 Obviously this is a toy example, but it does illustrate the point that: 1) it is far easier to write a Swing program that violates the EDT rules than one that doesn't 2) Swing doesn't have adequate support for separating UI design from business logic See also Swing Helper https://swinghelper.dev.java.net/ Obviously this is a toy example, but it does illustrate the point that:
1) it is far easier to write a Swing program that violates the EDT rules than one that doesn’t
2) Swing doesn’t have adequate support for separating UI design from business logic

See also Swing Helper
https://swinghelper.dev.java.net/

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